OK, let's get this chaos thing going. I'm Tzimon Yliaster. I've been a practising mage for 16 years, and have been an initiate of the IOT, a founder of the AutonomatriX, and am currently part of a network called Z-Cluster. Enough about me. Let's begin with a definition of two operative words: Chaos and Magick. Chaos is THE infinite set, containing within itself all variables, including the negation of any particular variable. Chaos cannot otherwise be ascribed any particular attribute or property; it contains within itself both order and disorder, black and white, etc., and is thus not directly and wholly comprehensible. Magick is the principle of causing change via means other than proximate cause-and-effect. If you open a door by spitting into your hands and shouting "Hubert" three times, you've performed an act of magick. Chaos Magick was first coined by Austin Spare in the early part of this century. It's afficianados since then include E.E. Rehmus, Frater UD, and to some extent, Peter Carroll. Chaos Magick needs to be understood in the light of its intrinsic amorality. The familiar slogan associated with it - Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted - was originally spoken by Hassan i-Sabbah... ... also known as the Old Man of the Mountains, the founder and leader of the Assassins of old. The slogan itself refers to the absence of moral, guiding absolutes. Certainly, any person is potentially capable of any act, magickally or otherwise. It is up to each Chaote (and ultimaely every person) to choose and create their *own* moral and ethical codes. So, what does this mean in terms of magickal practise? It means that the Chaote goes without fear of divinities and divine retribution. In effect, the ends justify the means in the eyes of the individual practitioner. I'll discuss some of the basic techniques and ideas of Chaos Magick. Some will seem familiar; Chaos Magick, like all "schools" of magick, has evolved from that which came before it. The first, and most important, idea is Gnosis. Gnosis, strictly defined, means knowledge of course. In Chaos Magick, however, one can say that "from confusion comes enlightenment". Gnosis, in our terminology, means a state in which the conscious, rational process is obliterated, allowing the subconscious, "magickal mind" to overcome the psychic censor (that which tells one what is possible and what is not, forcing one into.. ... rational decisiveness). When this occurs, instincts and "remote connections" come into play, allowing the Chaote to act without what one would term "decision making". In effect, by entering a state of Gnosis, one has an immediate grasp of the variables that require manipulation in order to achieve the desired end. This is important when one realizes that absolutely everything is in a constant state of flux, and that in the time it takes one to think, significant changes will take place that alter their original configuration. To need to cogitate over an action is, all too often, to miss the boat. We have all, I'm sure, been involved in situations where we thought too long, and missed the opportunity to accomplish a thing because of it. Achieving Gnosis is not, however, an easy thing to learn in and of itself. Try to completely stop your rational mind from functioning without lapsing into a coma, but instead allowing instinct and intuition to guide your actions. There are many techniques available, however, to aid one. Gnosis cannot be described, other than to say you'll know when it happens. It is much like orgasm; if you can think of the state of your own mind... ... in the very moment of orgasm, you will have some idea of what Gnosis is. Techniques of achieving Gnosis can be summed into two broad categories: excitatory and inhibitory. Excitatory means include such things as sex, dervish-like dancing, fear or other emotional extremes, and stimulatory drugs. Inhibitroy means include such things as meditation, sensory deprivation, asphyxiation, and depressant drugs. The outcome of the Gnosis in terms of the result of the magickal act is determined by one's desire, which is seeded into the subconscious through the use of such tools as statements of intent and sigils. A typical statement of intent: "I will that I grow hair." Note that belief is important here; the Chaote must FULLY BELIEVE up to the moment of Gnosis that their desire is possible. Doubt will generally cause a working to fail, or at least cause the outcome to be further afield from the initial "spoken" intent than one would find acceptable. Sigils are more complex. They involve a graphic depiction of a statement of intent, jumbled together so that the original intent is perceived ONLY by the subconscious, and is no longer intelligible to the rational mind at all. The most widely-used method I know of sigil creation is called "Alphabetic Sigilization", which is very well covered in Frater UD's "Practical Sigil Magick". One writes down their statement of intent and combines the letters into a pleasing form, creating a picture of their words. The creator then focuses single-mindedly upon the sigil while performing some technique to induce gnosis. When Gnosis occurs, the sigil is said to be "loaded". This means that the sigil has been directrly ingrained into the magickal mind, where it will affect the actions of the creator in such a way that he/she will, without having to think about it, strive to attain their goal. Further, a loaded sigil can be used to affect others, so that one may create a sigil that makes others fulfill their intent as well. Examples of some sigils I have created are available at my web page, http://www.crl.com/~tzimon/Images OK, now let's go back a little bit :=} What, then, is a spell? In Chaos Magick, a spell is simply a meand to manipulate variables external to the caster. In the "spit in your hands and shout Hubert" example I gave earlier, one has manipulated not a single variable (the door) but a great web of variables with the cumulative effect of causing the door to open. The interesting thing about this is, of course, that ANY action can end up being a spell, in that any single action has a multitude of ramifications, not all of which are known to the originator. A butterfly flapping its wings and thus "causing" a rainstorm is a good example of precisely this principle. The butterfly means to fly, not to get wet. Thus, it is very rare that a given spell will have PRECISELY the effect desired. This can occur *only* in the most profound states of Gnosis, when enough variables can be acted upon simultaneously to control the outcome very, very strictly indeed. In most cases, the outcome will be more-or-less a near miss. Indeterminancy is an important concept to keep in mind. One must thus be extremely cautious in what one attempts. A near miss at a minor event is less likely to result in harm to the originator than a bad attempt at a major alteration. There is no certainty here, no fate, and no finality. The ramifications of any given magickal act extend both forward and backward infinitely in time. An important thing to keep in mind regarding this inherent indeterminancy is that the same act is very unlikely to have the same outcome for any two Chaotes. In fact, the same act repeated by the same Chaote is unlikely to produce exactly the same effect twice. Everything is in a constant flux... ... as Anaxagoras (I think! :) said, "One Cannot step into the same river twice." This brings up the point of the testing, or scientific analysis, of Chaos Magick. Peter Carroll, in his book "Liber Kaos" makes a GRAVE mistake in his attempt to reduce magick to a string of pseudo-quantum physical formulae. It is important to note that science relies on the gross repeatability of an event to determine its legitimacy. Quantum physics, so often touted as an explanation of magick, is no different in this; it simply attempts to define more subtle "layers" of repeatability. Religion, as well, is more like science than it is like Chaos Magick. religion relies on the existence of external deity that determines the repetitious nature of reality. The Chaote knows that no two sunrises are truly the same, and that deity in and of itself is simply a misconception that seeks to elevate sameness over variety in the course of any gievn chain of events. This is not to say, however, that Chaotes do not believe in "gods" as it were. Instead, we realize that "all the gods and demons are we".... that divinities and daemons are simply the creations of our own infinitely multiple personalities. We ourselves are the creators of our realities, and that which is termed "objective reality" is really no more than the overlap within our own infinite personas. Demons are simply those personas which we find objectionable, but which have nonetheless become powerful enough to dominate the other personas present within us. Gods are those to which we become attached, which seem to benefit us, and thus we may fall to worshiping them. Gods become demons when they won't let go at appropriate times; when they are not a persona suited to dealing with a given circumstance... ... but will not give up the helm. We then try to supress them by force, and they become wrathful Jehovahs and angry Zeuses and Satans and Angra Mainyus. It becomes important, therefore, that a harmony and agreement between our own personas exists, less we become slaves to our gods and demons, rather than being able to use them for our own advantage. Peter Carroll, in his theft of Terry Pratchett's color scheme idea, defines 8 basic godforms. These, along with their associated colors are: Orange/Mercury: Thought and action, cleverness and tricksterism. Blue/Jupiter: Wealth and leadership Green/Venus: Love and attraction Red/Mars: Aggression, repulsion, and even violence. Black/Thanatos: Death, stagnation, and entropy Purple/Eros: Lust and the will to reproduce Yellow/Choronzon: Ego, charisma Octarine/Baphomet: Pure magick, selflessness and (ultimately) enlightenment and freedom. None of these forms are inherently good or bad; all are necessary for our useful functioning and the ability to perform various acts of magick. The Chaote must be able to invoke or dispel them at will, making them his/her servants. Various techniques are used to induce the ability to do this via Gnosis. For example, one might visualize a rampaging LA cop while piercing one's nipple for red magick. This is to say also that the archetypes one chooses in achieving gnosis and performing an act of magick will work best if they are taken not from dusty books... ... but from the very surroundings in which the Chaote finds hirself. There are few modern people for whom Quetzalcoatl is more meaningful than Adolph Hitler. The sorts of links one establishes to the variables to be manipulated is determined by the methods one uses to implant desire into the magickal mind... ... and the strength of those links, and thus the efficacy of the entire act, is determined by the power which the archetype has already within the psyche of the originator. This is the very, very basic level of Chaos Magick. Lastly, I would like to address an obvious question; what is the aim of all this on the individual level? A word frequently bandied about is "Pandaemonaeon". Pandaemonaeon is, on the individual level, utter liberation. In other words, the freedom to act as one desires, to create the effects one desires, and the freedom from concern over the opinions and views of those actions by others. On a wider level, then, Pandaemonaeon is the complete breakdown of division, of social mores, and of preconceived ideas and ideals. Pandaemonaeon is thus self-negating, the resolution of apparent paradox, and the end of the world as we know it. In a state of Pandaemonaeon, all causes and effects are simultaneous. Time itself ceases to exist. You and I and the wall and that tree all become, quite literally, one. This occurs because the variability of all of these seemingly isolated things actually becomes so great that they become each other... ... in such rapid succession that no definition between them exists. Efectively, they are in a constant and total acts of exchanging all of their matter and energy. In effect, they reach a state of sameness by changing so quickly and totally that none of them have any uniqueness at all. They revert to Chaos. Chaos is NOT disorder. Order and disorder become one another within chaos. It is only perception that draws the distinction between the two. When a state of total Gnosis is achieved, a state of lasting Gnosis... ... such rational distinctions can no longer be. The semantic games of the mind cease utterly. All things come from nothing, and nothing is just another pregnant void. I'd like to end my yammering at this point and open myself to questions. Please message me and let me know that you would like to ask something. Heh... no questions? Your conception of Quantum physics is inccorrect. when they talk about it being the explanation for magick they are talking Quantum chaos physics. Tycho? OK, Quantum Chaos Physics. it does not deal with repatation at all It deals with variabiolity being reduced to a system of formulae. it's the sceince of finding the posiblitiyies oops It deals specifically with explaining variability. spelling :( Yes, and defining them. not really. take a look at Many-worlds probbaility thoery Anything that can be defined is no longer Chaos, unless you use the definition of Chaos created by the science itself. Well, I do not beleive that, that type of Chaos is real. thier is a chaos to the universe. but not in that mannor. thier is chaos in the means, that thier is a infite possiblitys. and you have no clue which possiblity you are going to get Thanks for the question Tycho. Folks who'd like to read up on this stuff should ask Tycho about good sources of such literature. thats were the chaos lies. Go for it, margot. Tzimon --you did mention how magick works with the subconscious but you did imply that actual "physical effects" are possible as well .. I am not sure whether the concept of Chaos is more applicable to mind itself or physical reality ... I think the first option is way better and I believe most magicians agree. But I am not sure you'd agree with that? After all Chaos is just Tao, the Void, the infinite root within and all that ....and these ar Ah, OK. Thought someone would ask that. An idea is as real as a physical reality.\ Thus, by changing beliefs, one changes perceptions. This in itself is a change in the variables involved in a given situation. There is no barrier implied here between the internal and external. * HineNuit is gone *dead dead dead...*, Saving messages By changing one's MIND, one changes also the course of events... not only for oneself, but for the "external" world as well. This may be a VERY minor change, or it may be a gross manifestation. BTW, I should state that it is not only a change of mind... one creates action as well... you may instinctively thorw a stone into the pond. OK, margot. Perception is really everything indeed but what you say seems to imply that magick phenomena can be verified -at least within the bounds of probability theory --taking the uncertainty into account that is? I am sure you disagree but I find it odd. It does seem a paradox at first, and in fact one can verify a successful act of magick that one has initiated. However, in most cases, it cannot be verified OBJECTIVELY. Thanks. If I tell you that a tree fell because I willed it, how could I verify that for you? :=} Yer very welcome Hentai? Umm... okay. Hold on a second, I'm still collecting my thoughts and trying to formulate the question meaningfully. Heh... no problem... lemme know when yer ready. Good questions, BTW SpiderWlf? i totally believe that reality is constructable...now, trying to understand pandaemonamonium.... what happens to the pre-constructed reality when pandeamonamonium happens? utter obliteration? It ceases to exist as an "objective" reality. so its an absolute reality? It is replaced by a sort of rapid oscillation of many different realities. ahh..... It's ALL realities in rapid succession that would perceptually have no singular meaning. Thanks. OK, Hentai? Okay. If you said this early in your lecture, you'll have to forgive me. I arrived late. No prob. Shoot. That's good, Tycho. Mind if I answer other people's questions for a bit? We can argue about this later. To me, it sounds like a lot of what you're describing is similar to the Hindu/Buhdist idea of Karma... that all of a soul's actions propogate outwards, reverberate off of everything else, and echo back inwards to the source in a new pattern... Everything but the last part, yes. Some of the echoes may come back to the individual, indeed, but this is not a set event, nor is it predictable. The state of 'Gnosis', I believe you called it... this is essentially a subconscious understanding of the patterns of reality, and thus deciding which actions will echo backwards in certain ways? Some of what you do may well come back to you, and obviously it does. Alot more of it happens without your ever even knowing about it. The state of Gnosis is not understanding, really. Understanding is a conscious function... it's an INTUITIVE method of manipulating variables to create certain effects - or, as you put it, echoes. *nod* I understand. I guess I'm letting my "me vs. them" mindset clutter my perceptions. So you would agree with the Taoist idea that everything is one cohesive pattern, like a flowing river, and every individual "thing" is just a sub-pattern or eddy or wave in that river? * HineNuit is gone *dead dead dead...*, Saving messages You cited Hindu cosmology a bit, so I'd reference you to the concept of Indra's Net rather than Karma. Almost, hentai. It's not a pattern, and it's not cohesive, but in the end I do think it's One, yes. Thanks. Anyone else? Margot There is a standard ceremonial "accusation" that chaos is not anything new really and just cuts down the ceremonies of the G.'.D.'. or the Thelemites. Obviously there's truth to that but do you really think that ceremonial magick as we know it is a thing of the past? The mind is an objective place after all *grin*, certain things excite it, why not just keep doing the Crowley thing? In fewer words: Whats REALLY new here? Margot: No, I think that ceremoial magick can *still* be a useful tool. It really depends on the individual and the moment. You dont think Chaos is just CM lite>:) One should be able to use *any* method, ceremonial, shamnic, whatever. Thanks. Nope. I think Chaos Magick can include Ceremonial Magick, and even Peter Carroll and the like stress its importance. It just shouldn't be the *only* thing one uses. Yer very welcome. Xdrgl with a source on some neato quantum stuff :=} I would like to urge anyone who is interested in the interleaving of semantics and mathematics in the arena of modern chaos theory to read "The Undivided Universe" co-authored by David Bohm. Excellent source on the topic. And it even delves into the more "perceptual" arts at hand...:) you should be up on your calculus though. and there you have it. Thanks, x BTW, I'd like to add Ilya Prigogine's "Order Out of Chaos" as good source material for that matter as well. Great stuff. Next up? OK, if there are no more questions, I'll gladly open up the channel so that folks can discuss whatever they want to! OK, here we go... * HineNuit is gone *dead dead dead...*, Saving messages *grin* thanks tzimon, i really enjoyed this one...still trying to figure it all out though ;) later people .. see you around! TZ fabtastic Thanks *mwah* Heh... thanks for having me. It's very hard to lump all this into such a small space, and there's TONS I haven't touched on. * Brmhilda plants a big wet one on tzimon Yum! I enjoyed it too Tzimon, even though I do not agree on mor ethen half of it, and would love the chance to take it apeart one on one with ya :) hehe :) <--- likes big wet one ;=} Wow... my head is swimming. Tycho: Catch me on the weekend when I haven't been working all day and I'll be glad to discuss it all further with you. :) Weekend, thats tough. But I'll look around for you Good, then I've done what I shoulda been doing, Hentai. Yer nearing Gnosis! Woo woo! The beauty of chos magick is that you do no thave to believe even 10% of what anyone says. it is left up to you to decide what is important and what works for you So, could anyone /dcc me the complete log of this channel? I'm ususally on #thelema and #wicca. hahhha Heheheh... I didn't even get into the importance of a sense of humor and banishing by laughter. Maybe next time, eh? :=} lets talk about my buttocks. Tzimon: Gee. Thanks, I think(?) thats a good method of banishing OK. Are yer buttocks Chaotic, x? quite. at least they seem to think so. Hehehehehe That would be cool :) Cool... they move in more than one direction and more than one rate at any given time? xdrgl: Wait, lemme put my boot on first I'd like to see that sometime! my buttocks can do what they want, dammit. So, why the term "gnosis"? And is it anything like "satori"? It's really a rip-off term, Hentai, stolen from the Gnostics... It seems to me that much (or all?) of chaos magick is a rip-off. It is the accumulation of all ideas Hell, doing whatever you want is easy! It's wanting to do what you can't that's hard. if you're familiar with Gnostic cosmology, there are these archons that restrict you and keep you from the "ONE". In Chaos magick, the role of the Archon is fulfilled by the psychic censor, which in turn is an aspect of rational process. hmmm... So it's called "Gnosis" because it gets you passed the archon/censor. Tzimon: I see. <---hates the evil "psychic sensor" <---thinks it is Pat Buchanon in disguise Spare termed this interface "kia"... the Chaos within being the same as the chaos without :+} hine LOL Nietzsche: "I tell you a man must have Chaos yet within him to give birth to a dancing star." HineNuit: *nod* Of course, the chaos math slant is a nice touch Crowley: Every man and woman is a star. sounds like pedantical semantical fanatical romantical mechanical schemantical antics to me....:) Basically, we Chaotes just go about seeing stars. okay... so rational thought is bad? How Zen. Xdrgl: Yep, that's *exactly* what the termn Gnosis, in and of itself, is! Heh... not bad, sometimes it's just not appropriate. * Hentai pulls his label sheet out of his pocket and unfolds it Try being rational when yer in bed with your lover and see where it gets you! :=} * Hentai scribbles on a label and peels it off * Hentai sticks the label on Chaos Hentai: rational thought can lead you to create a great idea, but subconscious thought can make that idea a reality something about all of this rings as painfully arbitrary to me...I'll let you know when I can put my finger on it. i think :*) Ah! Well said, Hine! LOL Tzimon got it...tis the language. This is a Tzimon: Oh good. I understand then. x: Language is a virus :*) Or I think I do...? "Language is a virus from outer space"<----william burroughs There are times when rational thought is appropriate, and there are times when it isn't. You've just got to know which is which, I suppose. This is a "Magic" room right? aaahhh neato Tzimon: I have. I have the bruises to prove it. Xdrgl: Definitely. Language can be limiting and sound *really* trite, eh? LOL :) Yes, Kyle. <---- can also be limited and trite, but I do my best ;=} I have an internet address for you guys to check out...get ready for it... Hine: Hrm.. and how do you awaken the subconscious mind? http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/1529 Hen: that is where gnosis comes into play OK, Kyle, got one for you: It is my friend's home page...all kinds of Magic stuff.... http://www.crl.com/~tzimon * SpiderWlf says the channel web page is at http://solaris.madnet.com/~wicca WEll, I personally am not into magic... well, the #wicca web page :P <--- will check it out. Hen: by breaking down the wall of the rational mind, you allow the subconscious to do its thing" you can awaken the subconscious mind with big loads of intoxicants and/or stress. At least thats a fun way.... :) Heh... so tell yer friend to check it out, then :=} Cool...also be sure to spread the addy around... Yep, x! path of excess blah blah blah and stuff Hentai: What awakens the subconscious when you fall asleep at night? :=} Hey, don't be bashing us excessives! heheh Yer just jealous! <--- prefers the inhibitory methods like asphyxition the best "I can identify as excessive, who I want, when and where I want..." wasnt that Crowley? I cant remember. * Tzimon strangles Hine Tzimon: Umm... if I knew that, I'd be a happy man. Me neither, X. oh no wait... Hentai: Well, go for the Gnosis sometime, and perhaps you will *indeed* be a happy man after all! :=} crowley was the "I can have sex with whom I want, when and where I want" thats right. Cool, X! How about me, right now, on the floor? ehh? nope. Ah well. *shrug* get a quick sex change and we'll talk....:P :P~~~ Well, I'd like to see Crowley have sex with Atilla the Hun in 1978 on top of Olympus Mons. Thanks Tzi ... I needed that :*) I've used all sorts of methods for Gnosis... sex, drugs, burial, putting myself into phobic situations... If you wanna talk with people from another country or another language... come to #language... I would not like to see Crowley have sex, period :*) cutting myself... banging my head on the wall... * SpiderWlf grins thanks tzimon for a great class! Can you say "dork"? * SpiderWlf is off to #wicca yep yep yep thanks! * SpiderWlf waves Hrm. * Tzimon is off to #thelema/#wicca himself. See y'all later, and thanks for letting me yammer at ya for awhile. :=} I wonder if bondage would work...? Indeed it might!